Re: MSW3C Software

Tim Byars (
Sun, 13 Dec 1998 21:03:29 -0700

At 5:58 PM -0800 12/13/98, Ian Andrew Bell put forth the following:

> Tim Byars wrote:
>> I really don't give a fuck what you release it in because I can run it in
>> Virtual PC, or real PC or Sparc or NeXT or whatever. That isn't the point.
>> The point is a majority of web developers are doing their work on Mac's.
> Tim et al;
> As usual, Tim's misguided efforts to defend the castle while the invad
> -ing barbarians are sipping tea in the anteroom is quaint, but
> completely pointless. Looking at the entire world around you through
> powerbook-hued glasses will leave you nearsighted and lonely, Timbo.

First thank you for not insulting my race, or nationality. That being said
this is not some sort of misguided Amiga evangelism. Apple still owns the
publishing, advertising, print, film and television markets. So when I
speak of the Mac I speak of professionals doing there work on this
platform. Not Johnny Jackoff with his home brew 3dfx P-II.


> The purpose of the W3C is not to develop software that works to make web
> pages work on Macs or Windows. In my view the W3C is and should be a
> marginally democratic organization which serves to act as an intermed-
> iary between the rivaling OS and client factions, irrespective of whom
> is winning. The web was supposed to be a platform-independent medium.


> The W3C is by my perception a fairly low-budget operation that has
> neither the time nor the money to develop and support this stuff on
> multiple platforms. What they've done is a proof of concept and they
> did it on the most popular computing platform in the world, which does
> make sense. Might as well, right?

Go on.

> Mac or Windows, from a web authoring perspective who cares what this
> runs on? You won't be using this stuff six months from now. Given
> that the source is available you'll see lots of commercially-available
> equivalents for every other platform someday soon.

Again missing my point, but I'll let you finish.

> Putting on my marketing weasel hat for a moment, what would happen if
> they released this stuff Mac only? Would the tree be falling in the
> forest with 2% of the market there to witness it? I say go for a
> small chunk of a big market and you'll get the attention you need
> when it comes time to pitch this to the real commercial developers..

To I never said to release it Mac only.

> Secondarily, show me a recent survey that says %60 of WWW authoring
> is done on the MacOS. I just went through Forrester's library and
> this has not been tracked for at least a year.

What were those %'s? Probably higher than 60 I would guess.

> Remember Tim:
> We don't build things so we can use the tools -- we buy the tools
> so we can build things.

So in closing you have made my point. Let's look at what the W3C is
supposed to be doing.

1. Establishing standards for the Web.
2. See 1.

So the W3C has this swell piece of software that let's me, a web developer
check out how my code is running for *their* new standards. But since I
have a OS that let's say 51% of the people developing web sites use I can't
run their software. They (to paraphrase) can't be bothered. I am supposed
to enter a time machine, undo my graphics training and experience and learn
to write code to assemble their source because me and 51% of the other
developers don't count.

This is basically Daniel's and I'm assuming since no disclaimer was noted
the W3C's position. And I say this is completely wrong thinking. I would
like to know how many Mac's are at the W3C? Because Daniel likes to throw
around the 3% number, there probably aren't many. However even going with
the 51% of developers rate that still is a majority of developers
developing content for the other 95% to look at. If the W3C actually
believes that their mission is to create standards for the 95% of the
lookers then I submit they are completely lost. It is my and other web
developers responsibility to develop a web site for the 95% lookers. It is
their responsibility to develop standards for me and others to author to.
By not even making an effort to (and that is really what it comes down to
isn't it?) bring this software onto the platform that 51% of the developers
use, you have to question their seriousness as an open standards body.
Hence my term MSW3C.

At the very least the W3C can put out a press release asking interested Mac
developers to contact them to bring their source to the Mac community, then
once a list is assembled distribute their source to those software
developers with the understanding that it will be released. It isn't that



Happy Holidays! And the best of New Years...

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