Re: Let Me Get This Straight . . .

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From: Jay Thomas (
Date: Mon May 14 2001 - 19:07:25 PDT

Nicely done. And you avoided answering my questions, too. Okay, let me
try this again...

Ian Andrew Bell wrote:
> Brigham Young University Lecture Summary, 5/14/01..
> And this week in Debating 213, we'll show you how to attack an argument
> without actually contesting anything that the other debater has said.
> Step One: Turn everything, no matter how benign, into a personal attack.
> This will illicit sympathy from your audience who will respect you for
> defending your dignity in the face of such obvious Liberal impudence:
> > I'm glad you know me so well, Ian, that you can critique my parenting
> > skills from all the way out there in Hollywood.

were you not referring to me in your post? When you responded to my post
with "I will focus my effort less on supporting conservative lobbyists
and more on talking to my children and actually being a parent.", were
you not implying that that is the direct opposite of the way I would
behave? If not, I apologize for jumping to the wrong conclusion.
> Bonus step -- if debater lives in Hollywood, the source of all things evil
> in our culture, that's just too easy. Make sure that's well documented for
> the audience, too. Right-minded folks would never live in such a cesspool!

Do you *not* live in Hollywood? I went to your website, clicked on
"Backyard", and saw the Hollywood sign. I am in New Hampshire, an
awfully long way away, and we have never met. I commented on the
distance, not necessarily that you live in a "cesspool". Again, sorry if
I offended by pointing out where you live. I had no ideas that was
against the rules of this discussion.

> Step Two: Know your opponent. Check out everything you can. See what you
> can dig up. If there's anything you can find that might jeopardize his/her
> credibility in minds of right-minded people, by all means drag it out.

Well, lets see, you stated "I will smile inside as my children turn to
and point out how "stupid" or "lame" the ad is.", and I was amazed that
someone so young as you had such mature children. And like I said,
theres nothing about a wife/kids on your site. I'd like to know where
you get all this parenting knowledge. Not an attack on your credibility
per se, just inquiring as to the basis of your credibility, when you
start flinging advice on the subject. Or saying some people shouldn't be
allowed to be parents.

> > Those are some mighty sophisticated kids you've raised there, Ian. What
> > are their ages and how many are there again? At your website it didn't
> > mention anything about kids, or even a wife. Just a cat. I'm sure you're
> > raising him to be quite sophisticated too.
> Now you're ready for Step Three: Repeat! (Right-minded folks sometimes
> need to hear things four or five times before they really understand your
> message).
> > When my license is suspended, do I have to go before the west hollywood
> > parenting board to appeal, or are you planning on adopting them as your
> > own, oh he who is so wise in the art of parenting?
> Excellent. As you see, the proponent above has artfully dodged an otherwise
> logical and potentially appealing argument and has successfully turned it
> into a slander-fest. Right-minded folks will see the foolish liberal's
> character assassinations for what they are -- pure evil.
> -Ian.

And, again, Ian, I simply asked how you would go about your stated plan
"perhaps it would just be simpler and more expedient to license the art
of parenting."

And, in your haste to point out all of my vicious attacks on you (did I
offend your cat, by the way?) you did not answer one of my questions,
thereby showing yourself to be a master debater... "As you see, the
proponent above has artfully dodged an otherwise logical and potentially
appealing argument and has successfully turned it
into a slander-fest."


"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those 
with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig"
-Clint Eastwood, "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly" 1967

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