Re: [Winer] Sun & SOAP: Yes or no?

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From: amanes@ha1cup.eng.Sun.COM
Date: Thu May 18 2000 - 14:04:35 PDT

Dave definitely misquoted me. I told him that we have allocated an engineer
to work on an Apache open source implementation of SOAP (we've heard that IBM
is submitting one). We are not submitting a SOAP "server".


>Boy, there's just far too many factual errors in Dave's post to go into in
>detail now.
>There is most definitely concensus within Sun on a SOAP position, and I
>don't see how Michael's comments on the panel or on the xml-dist-app list
>contradict it.
>The latest public comment, AFAIK, can be found here;
>>From: Adam Rifkin -4K <>
>>To: FoRK@XeNT.CoM
>>Subject: [Winer] Sun & SOAP: Yes or no?
>>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 17:57:45 -0700 (PDT)
>>\me is still watching and waiting for an official announcement from Sun...
>>and apparently I'm not the only one.
>> >
>> > Wednesday, May 17, 2000
>> >
>> > After talking with Michael Condry on Tuesday, I held no hope for Sun
>> > supporting SOAP any time in the near future. I said so on Scripting
>> > News. My hopes have been bobbing up and down in the last few days.
>> > Before Wednesday's shakedown session, while talking with a key
>> > technologist at Iona, up comes Anne Thomas Manes, Sun's director of
>> > business strategy. She told a story quite different from Condry's, and
>> > in-line with what Baker said on Monday.
>> >
>> > She wrote a letter, that I have not seen published, but I assume will be
>> > shortly, saying that Sun has a full-time engineer working on SOAP and
>> > will make a submission to the Apache Group of a SOAP 1.1 server. I asked
>> > if she would say so at the shakedown session, she said yes. I didn't
>> > call on her because Sun was already represented on the panel by Condry,
>> > who was making more sympathetic sounds than I expected, based on
>> > yesterday's conversation, but his comments were nowhere near as positive
>> > and decisive as Manes. I wanted to save Sun the possible embarassment,
>> > and SOAP the confusion, of a public dispute between two Sun execs.
>> >
>> > I'm confused. I've had the hiearchy explained to me. Baker works for
>> > Condry, but I'm not sure if Condry works for Manes. After the session,
>> > on the xml-dist-apps mail list, Condry posted several near-flames about
>> > SOAP. What is going on?? Either there's major news, or indecision at
>> > Sun. A clear statement of support by Sun of SOAP would be the last major
>> > milestone before quick deployment of early SOAP-compliant Web apps, the
>> > spell checker and jit-se.
>> >
>> > It's clear that even without Sun's involvement, there is excellent
>> > support for Java coming from IBM. But Sun's involvement in the
>> > development and deployment process would be awesome.
>>All that said, let me be clear: I screwed up. I should have had three
>>marketing and sales managers in my back pocket and I should have had the
>>nerve to say no [to our CEO candidate]. I should have had the courage
>>of my convictions and bet that in another two months, once we had
>>started announcing ourselves to the world, we could get anybody we wanted.
>> -- Charles Ferguson, _High Stakes, No Prisoners_, p. 169
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Anne Thomas Manes

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