RE: [CNN] Bush 2,909,465; Gore 2,907,722.

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From: Damien Morton (
Date: Wed Nov 15 2000 - 09:57:19 PST

> Damien Morton wrote:
> > Seems to work OK in Australia too. Also most of Europe.
> Define "seems to work OK." Let's say I decide that I'm a
> little worried about
> the fact that my uncle died years ago of atherolateral sclerosis. I'm
> concerned about genetic tendencies towards that, and would
> just like to sit
> down and consult with *my* doctor about this. You tell me:
> easier here, or
> easier there?

Seems to work == my circle of acquaintances seem reasonably happy with the
service they have got. This includes the aged, the rich, the poor, the sick
and the healthy. Certainly there is are no systemic problems such as found
with HMOs.

> > I currently live in the US, and whilst I havent experience
> the full breadth
> > of the medical system, I have experienced enough not to want to have
> > anything to do with it.
> Do tell. Why? What're the problems you've had with the US,
> and why would you
> prefer a socialized system? Can you get treatment when you
> want it Down
> Under? Can you choose your doctor? Can you fire your doctor
> and get another
> one if you want it? And how much, really, do you end up
> paying for the whole
> thing, once you carve out taxes, etc? (Remember that you're
> funding an entire
> administrative bureaucracy as well as just the healthcare
> professionals /
> facilities themselves.) How much direct access do you have
> to specialists? To
> new / experimental treatments? How common are advanced
> diagnostics? What's
> the average doctor / patient ratio in a typical clinic? How
> long is the
> average hospital stay? Mortality rates in surgery? Etc. etc.

From what I understand, Australia spends far far less per head on medicine
than the US. The "socialised" medicine system is a safety net. You can
always buy better care or treatment if you so desire.

My expeiences in the US involved spending a LOT of time waiting for
appointments as a hospital outpatient. The doctors I encountered wouldnt
even take the time to explain what was happening to me. On the second visit
I had to physically jam the door so he couldnt get out before explaining
what the problem was and what the treatment entailed and what the
consequences would be

> Note: don't tell me about all the nightmare problems you
> might've had with a
> managed healthcare program here: I'm a big opponent of HMOs,
> hate 'em, I find
> dealing with them incredibly frustrating and think they provide shitty
> healthcare. If you want to critique "the American system,"
> you should really
> critique private or PPO-affiliated healthcare systems. I
> would never even
> dream of arguing whether Europe, the UK, Australia, etc.
> provide better
> healthcare than HMOs; I'm sure they do. HMOs are the worst
> of both worlds: a
> system organized like a socialist medical organization but
> trying to operate on
> a for-profit basis. No thanks!
> I believe it's fairly well *objectively* documented that the
> US in general has
> the best health care in the world, in terms of breadth,
> depth, and success
> rates of various treatments. Coupled with the fact that we
> have a lot more
> autonomy as patients in making our own healthcare choices.
> And, again, we'd
> pay *even less* for all this if the healthcare industry
> operated on a purely
> free-market basis. (At least, that's my pop's position on
> it.) Now, granted,
> all that stellar medical care isn't available to everybody.
> But since when did
> healthcare become a right?
> jb

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